Ok, Keep the other debates up.
The 2004 Election, John F. Kerry vs. George W. Bush.
This election was, on the left(Kerry) based around Bush's Mistakes, how he hurt the country. For Bush, It was How Kerry's views "Flip-flopped".
Ok, My belief is, Kerry lost because of the Gay-Rights Movement. Many of the Religious (extreme) Right, don't want Gay marriage (Im not saying that ONLY the religious Right don't want Gay marriage). Many of them also don't normally vote. When their beliefs with marriage were threatened by Gay-Rights and Gay marriage, They VOTE. This is not bad, even though I don't agree with their views on Gay Marriage, but it tipped the election to G W Bush.
The reason I say this, is the exit polls had Kerry winning by like, 20%. not at all a small margin.
Flip-Flopped: THE WORLD IS NOT BLACK AND WHITE. (Beware: In this portion, I could get VERY mad. Threaten my beliefs, and I defend them too!)
If you listend to the debates, this is ALL Bush said. The question would be "what about the deficit?" And bush would come back with: Yes, Its bad, BUT KERRY FLIP-Flopped.
If you take a Black and White (B&W) view, He DID flip-flop. Then again, if you take a B&W view, Scott is pro-life (see abortion comments). Very little is B&W. Almost NO politics are B&W. Unfortunately, America (and most of the world) view things as B&W, because it is easier to understand.
Just like Scott and Erics views on abortion, Kerrys views were more complex than B&W. The main thing where Bush mentined Flip-Flopping was Iraq. Kerry voted FOR the war. its true. BUT, he had the understanding that it would be WITH UN support. Which never materialised. Then, Kerry didnt want a war. Flip flopping? NO. He wanted it With the UN suppot, not going alone (Yes there was a coalition, but its FORTY countries. and most of them are tiny, were bribed, dont have an army, or forced).
Also, I would Like you to HONESTLY say that your views have never changed. you cant, can you? If you can, You Lie.
I would also like to point out that the states that went for bush had a MUCH lower average IQ than the ones that went for Kerry. Just a fun little fact. This IS accurate, go here to see it.
Also, the Kerry states were usually making more $$$ (except DC, B/cause thats a bunch of politicinas. All politicaians are DUMB)
Toodles
Motor.On
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11 comments:
Good points. However, Kerry didn't just flip-flop once or twice. He had ELEVEN different persepectives on the war in just a few months. I can't name all of them, but I have an Anti-Kerry poster around here somewhere. Also, I CAN'T honestly say that my views have never changed, but I CAN honestly say that I'm not a politician. Rules are different for politicians. Interesting therory.
They are, its true. They always have been. America(and the rest of the world) is/are looking for Superman. We wnt someone who is perfect, and thats not gonna happen. We, jsut like the draft horse pulling the sleigh bell have blinders on. We only look at one side of the issue, or try to look at bth and see it as black and white. The mani problem?? ITS NOT BLACK AND WHITE! everything has AT LEAST 3 sides to it. therefore, it ant be B&W. i i could do ONE thing to better mankind, I would make them see its NOT B&W. thats it. Not solve poverty, or world peace, because PPL have problems that they cant get rid of.
We may some day be able to get wold peace, BUT it has the EXACT same effect on the common person as constant war. Except war makes some jobs. (Notice some.)
Okay, I had to go to sleep before I could finish that comment.
Back to the world poverty, This kind of applys to the other posts too.
We will NEVER solve poverty, it always happens. Society always breaks into:
1. High
2. Middle
3. Low
Always, from the Dark ages, when it was the nobles, merchants and serf, to nowadays when they are called: Upper , Middle, and lower class. What we CAN do is make the lower two backets smaller and smudge the lines between the areas, so that one person can have a lower-class education, b ut work in the upper class.
There has been one major society that I can think of that was almost unaffected by warfare, therefore endless (or almost so) peace.
Ancient EGYPT.
Why? they were in a desert! they COULdNT be attacked by enemies!
Okay, now lets look at ho their civilization was, from a lower and middle class stand point.
The levels are:
1. Pharoh/Preists
2. Merchants/other rich PPL
3. slaves, Farmers, poor serfs.
You could argue that there are more levels, but fdor simplicities sake, just three.
As you probably know, Egypt spent mst of their time making monuments. BIG monuments. REALLY big monuments. One was so big, it was meant to follow the Nile. it took 2000 years to build. It had to switch directions to still follow the lives.
From the slaves view, ITS HARD WORK. What would have happened in war? the slaves would be FightING!THATS HARD TOO!!!
Okay, World peace is the same as constant war. and Poverty cant be solved.
Whats that mean?
ALL politicians are liars. But we knew that.
Motor.On
Eric: the problem in unfolding wars is that they aren't static. A continuing war is never a static issue because new problems and ideas are brought up constantly as it goes on. People were saying we would go into Iraq, conduct a quick takeover, install a democracy, and get the heck out. But two years later, we're still there, because Republican war hawks made a mistake in believing that Iraq was ready for a democracy and insurgents would easily be crushed. Obviously, these people were mistaken in a big way. Just take a look at the news. People have to change their views on wars and their strategies for dealing with them all the time, otherwise they get wiped out. If you can't adapt to a situation, you can't survive. Kerry changing his views on a dynamic issue like the Iraq war is a whole lot better than Bush sticking to his original position that was shaky at the beginning and is in shambles now.
Oh, by the way motor.on, GREAT statistic on the IQs of the Bush/Kerry states... that's hilarious!
I found it funny too.
Its also funny that the average income, 3 of ppl with Bachelors Degrees are higher...
This is interesting:
This
also, This
is a bit disturbing
don't forget taking every single quote out of context... the $48 billion voting for it before i voted against it thing is WAAAAAAAAAAAAY out of context!
the first bill he DID vote for made the rich have most of the bill while the second version he voted against had them paying less of the money.
it's sad that in this day and age in america gay people are still being discriminated against... damn rednecks
you will never ever ever ever ever ever have world peace... wait i take that back... when the human race is whiped from the earth or quite possibly most everything (besides cockroaches) THEN and only then will there be world peace. it's human nature. war has been around as long as humans have. it sucks alot, but it's true. Also we will never break the upper middle and lower class barriers; there will always be someone with more money and there will always be someone with less money thus creating the class divisions... even if the differential is salaries is:
upper: $100,001
middle: $100,000
lower: $99,999
that's still class division... it will never go away
"peace on mars, 'cause you ain't gonna get it here"
-none more black
The only way I can see world peace happening is if some outside enemy comes along and nukes us all to hell. Then the ten or so survivors will HAVE to work together to stay alive.
Asif - Yeah, you said it. Wars bring up new, UNEXPECTED contingencies. EVERYBODY thougth the war would go smoothly. Nobody predicted what happened, and you can't blame that on "war hawk republicans." Kerry voted for the war. Even if he expected UN backing, it was never going to happen and everybody knew it.
Douglas - Show me the context for that quote. I've looked at his entire speech, and it still seems like a big flipflop. Plus, he said it was "late at night and he was tired" when he made that quote. Turns out, the quote was made at 1 PM and it was after a day of nothing. Moving on, you know why gay people are being discriminated against? The democrats make a big deal out of it. They force people to pay attention to sexual preference because they go "Oh, you poor gay people. Let's write some laws that say 'gay people rock'." The only thing that those laws do is force people to pay attention to sexual preference. In Roman Impirial times, gay people were normal. The reason? There weren't any social programs or laws that stupid-ass parties like the democrats made.
Everybody - Yeah world peace is never going to occur. It is impossible, since it's natural for people to have conflict. War is not always bad, either. It is the only way to keep evil at bay. Fighting for what you believe in is sometimes the only way to ensure that the right thing gets done. Hunt or be hunted.
Reguarding the class division - there is always going to be poverty. However, everybody in this country already has more than people in other countries. I can't remember the numbers exactly, but poverty here means having a car and a TV. A family of four on $30,000 per year is poverty here, but in other countries it's pretty good. The sad fact is that there are always stupid/careless/whatever people out there that either squander their money away, don't work hard enough to make any, or sometimes just have some rough luck. I don't mind helping those with rough luck. However, I can't stand the former two. Stupid people can go to hell. Darwin. E Ching. Evoltion. Shit happens. Whatever, people have to adapt. Roll with it. (To use a direct quote from "Collateral"). Dumbasses should die out anyway. The future of America is in intellectual enterprise rather than labor, because of all of the outsourcing of jobs. You should see either my rant or alan's, can't remember where it is, on job outsourcing. Pretty sure I wrote that one. Well, if you don't work hard, I think that's worse than being stupid. You DEFINITELY should go to hell if you don't work. If you've got no drive, no motivation, whatever we're calling it, you're completely useless to society. You gotta pull your own weight if you wanna live. That's my theory. Well, anyway, we can't get rid of poverty because there are always those who squander it away and let it go to waste, no matter how hard you coach them and no matter how much you give to them.
There ARE some people who squander their money, BUT the vas Majority of people who are poor have a lower income and CAN NOT get out of the "poverty circle" There actually is a school in a lower class area where the kids are going to school for like 300 days a year... THAT is how you break out. OR we could try to improve the public school system in lower class areas.
the US has it better, true. But eerything is relative. A TV here cost, say $500. Sure, thats acheivable for a family that makes $30,000 a year. BUT the worker in CHina who make that TV will NEVER in their ENTIrE life be able to buy that same TV. So maybe we could pay over-seas wokers more?
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